ROUGHLY EDITED COPY

APRIL ‑ Let's Talk About Transportation 
SEPTEMBER 8, 2016, 3:00 P.M.

CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY:
CLOSED CAPTION PRODUCTIONS

* * * * *

This is being provided in a rough‑draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. 

* * * * * 
>> We will be getting started in just a few moments here, folks.  We're getting our CART online and getting folks joining us as we speak.  You might not know it, because we finally figured out how to turn off that beeping noise when people join.  It looks like we do have our captioner online with us.  
>> Hi folks, if you're just joining us, we're just going to wait a couple of moments as people get on the line here.  It is 1:00 now, you can't see it, but I can.  There are a bunch of folks joining us as we speak.  So we will begin in about two or three minutes.  Thank you.  
It sounds like you didn't join anything as you're coming on, but I promise you did.  We'll get started in a few moments here.  
Well, it's a little bit after 1:00 so why don't I go ahead and I would love to welcome everybody here and good afternoon.  Thank you for joining us on today's call.  Let's talk about transportation.  
If you need access to CART for today's call you can go to the APRIL website at www.april‑rural.org and follow the link on the home page.  If you have trouble accessing or have any questions during our call, you can e‑mail me at mary.olson@mso.omt.edu ‑‑ I can send you the link or help you troubleshoot.  Today's call will be recorded thanks to bill Cochran and the audio transcript will be available on the website.  During today's conversation if you would like to add to the topic from your experience or ask questions, you can press star‑2 on your phone to raise your hand so that I can make your line live.  Once your question has been answered, please press star‑2 again to lower your hand.  
When I unmute your line, the moderator will say "your line has been unmuted."  Please note this means you're ready to ask your questions or comments.  Please evaluate the conversation.  This is presented by the IL‑NET which is operated by the independent living research program.  Support is provided by the U.S. department of health and human services, administration for community living.  No official endorsements of the department of health and human services should be inferred.  
Now, without further adieu, I would like to introduce some of your presenters.  First we have Joan O'Keefe and she has been with southeast Alaska independent living for 20 years, the first five years in outdoor recreation and community access or ORCA program and the last 14 years as executive director.  She is the chair of SILC and the transportation advisory board.  Sails has been partnering with a taxi company in Juneau, Alaska.  Using a different model, SAIL is working with local government to draft an ADA taxi ordinance.  She lives in Juneau with her husband and dog.  Today we also have with his Melva.  Melva Heinrich is a native of Idaho living her entire life in the southern region.  She has been at the twin falls official for over 24 years and is the director.  She's a board member on the Idaho statewide independent living council and also on the APRIL board.  She operates and supervises the only program in the state which serves well over 1,200 people every year.  Four years ago, this transportation program was cited in the U.S. senate health education labor and pensions committee as an example of a cost‑effective consumer friendly collaboration among multiple providers.  
And we also have a special guest today who's going to be introducing our topics.  That's Tim Sheehan.  And he is the current president of the APRIL board and he runs our advocacy committee.  Tim, I didn't prepare a biography on you, but I feel like you don't need a huge introduction.  But with that being said, would you guys mind taking it away?  
>> Thank you, Mary.  This is Tim Sheehan from Wisconsin, and welcome, advocation all across the nation for what I hope will be a lively and engaging conversation about an issue that vexes most people with disabilities wherever they live, but especially in rural areas and that's access to accessible, affordable transit options to enhance their lives.  
I want to spend a couple of minutes just setting the framework for the conversation and just sort of bring folks up to speed where we're at at a national level regarding transit.  In order to do that, I want to spend a couple of minutes talking about where we've been.  I think as everyone on this call will recall, those of us who have been doing systems change work around transit policy for 15 years or so worked really hard to get a surface transportation bill reauthorized.  And the efforts of that resulted in map 21.  And a diverse group of advocates, both from the disability community and from the equity community, worked and pushed congress really hard to make some improvements around transportation policy.  And many of those improvements were included in map 21.  And following the expiration, the fixed America surface transportation act of 2015.  Some improvements were included on the FAST act one of which I'll highlight in a moment.  But I want to encapsulate where we're at in terms of transit programs that affect people with disabilities of all ages.  And that is the main section that really is the focus of our work, and that is section 5310.  Which is a formula grant program available to states.  
Under the previous surface transportation bill prior to map 21 and the FAST act, programs that serve primarily elders and people with disabilities fell under a category called the new freedom program.  And in that program, organizations were able to apply to set up transit programs that went beyond the ADA or that were new programs designed to serve people with disabilities.  
Under the FAST act, those series of eligible activities were rolled into section 5310.  So they included all of the new freedom projects that were out there.  It also rolled in capital and operating expenses for transit programs.  It also included mobility management, as both a capital and an operating allowable expense.  And also folded into what had been known as the transportation alternatives program, do things like to make sidewalks accessible to transit hubs, for example.  And a whole series of other enhancements, community enhancements that can be funded through 5310.  
It also did a couple of other things.  There was a program that had existed for a long time called job access in reverse commute projects, which are employment‑related transit initiatives.  That program was divided between two sections, one being the small, urban transit program, and the other being the rural transit program.  And those programs now receive those funds and must continue to figure out a way to continue those job access reverse commute activities within their grant.  
When the FAST act was signed by the president, it was a five‑year bill, and if you go to FTA's website and look at the federal transit administration's website and look at the fact sheets around section 5310, you'll notice that there's actually increased funding in each of the five years of the bill.  Which ends in 2020.  That means, at least in theory, that there should be more money available coming into our states as the years of the FAST act continue.  
Here's something that I really want folks to put into their mix masters and talk about at your state level.  If you're not engaged with your state EOT on what they're doing with 5310, you should be.  And the issue centers around the eligible activities under section 5310, a few of which I just highlighted are things that states can fund, but they're not required to fund.  So if your state is using 5310 funds for its traditional purposes, which is offsetting the cost of vehicles, and only that, it would be a good time to have a dialogue with them about all the other cool things that they can do with 5310, including fund transportation programs like we're going to hear about today, operated by non‑profits such as centers for independent living.  
Another huge, what I consider to be a huge change, a positive change that happened in the FAST act that's never happened before, as far as I know and as far as I can determine, in order to draw down either capital funds or operating funds, you have to have a local match in your grant application.  For operating, that's a 50/50 match.  So you've got to have a dollar for every dollar of federal money you're going to spend, and for capital projects, the federal share of 80%.  So you've got to come up with 20% in local match.  
There's always been some flexibility about what match can be.  But it had to be 20% or 50%, depending on what category you were applying for or receiving funds for.  And those could not be federal dollars.  You can't match federal dollars with federal dollars.  Well, in the FAST act, that changed.  So in section 5310, you can now use federal dollars as long as they're not either FTA or USDOT dollars.  You can use federal dollars as the local match share of either your capital project or your operating expense project.  That makes a big, big difference in the communities that we serve.  And so I want folks to note that.  And I want them to highlight that for their state USDOT or state DOT folks, whoever handles the formula grant program at the state level and doles out the dollars that federal dollars can now be used as a match as long as they're not FTA dollars or USDOT dollars.  
The rest of our time together, I want Joan and Melva to have a dialogue about what's currently happening, what current things are happening, what roles can centers play in affecting transit for people of all disabilities in their states.  So that's why we're here.  I'm not going to talk anymore and I'm going to let these folks kick off the show.  Mary?  
>> MARY:  Thanks Tim.  Why don't we move right in?  I think, Melva, are you ready to tell us a little bit more about some of the cool programs you're doing?  
>> MELVA:  Yes, thank you.  This is Melva Heinrich and I'm happy to be here and I want to thank Mary and Tim for allowing me to be here.  I'm really looking forward to this conversation.  I appreciate APRIL and all the folks that make this call possible so we can talk about transportation issues.  And I'm going to talk today about our voucher program that I run in Twin Falls, Idaho.  It's called the purchaser service program.  First I want to make one correction, I'm the director in twin falls, but Roger Howard is our executive director.  I wouldn't want him to think I'm trying to take his credit.  I've been working in the independent living world for 24 years and since the beginning of my career transportation has been the number one issue for people with disabilities necessary to maintaining their independence in the community, and that's why we continue this program, even when we have times of funding cuts and when match money is hard to find.  And because too many people with disabilities keeps them from driving would go without seeing a doctor or going without getting their hair done or even visiting their friend.  We run our program with 5310 money, which is for elderly individuals and individuals with disabilities.  The goal of our program is to improve mobility for older people and people with disabilities.  Like Tim says, eligible capital projects under 5310, include funding vehicle acquisitions and it also is for contracted services for nonprofit organizations that serve elders and people with disabilities.  
We've run this program now for 25 years.  It started out as a small program where you could purchase some scrip money and use with a local taxi company.  At that time we only had one provider and we ran it that way for about 10 years and then we changed the program to where the customer no longer had to purchase the scrip money and we could pay the cab companies direct and they only had to put out money when they paid the co‑pay when they used the taxi company.  Our program covers a four‑county area, a population of about 150,000 people.  81,000 of those people live in Twin Falls County, leaving the 69 though of the other three counties we provide services in.  How it works is a person with a disability or a senior fills out a very basic application that they have, and they also have to have a verification of disability filled out by a licensed professional.  This was a new requirement by the Idaho Department of Transportation this year.  
We also captured the disability and demographic information for our center's annual report.  With this information a person is given a card with their assigned number on it, and they can use it with the local public transportation provider, or with local taxis who have contracted with us.  At this time we only have two taxis contracted with us, but we have had as many as six at one time.  Our public transportation provider runs a demand response service, so he only runs five days a week and 12 hours a day, so we need to contract with those other providers so folks can have services 24 hours a day, seven days a week.  
When a person uses the public transportation provider, the ride is free to the participant.  And our grant pays $5 of that ride.  If the participant uses a taxi, we pay $5 of the ride and the participant pays the remainder.  That amount depends on how many miles the participant travels.  There's also a 20% match, as Tim mentioned earlier, that is required for the 5310.  To come up with the matching funds, we have gone to each of the counties and cities and asked for assistance with those match funds, and this has been met with a minimal success, so we've also applied for local grants such as through banks and businesses that have charitable components associated with their businesses.  We also have been very fortunate to have a couple of fairly large private donations.  And over the years we've used the FTA funds, such as 5316 and 17, which had an administrative component to it.  But right now, the way our grant is set up, we do not have any administrative funds, so link pays for all the costs which includes salary, postage, along with other costs which include fringe benefits.  
When there's been a shortfall in our program, link has used unrestricted funds to cover those gaps.  Unrestricted revenues are primarily funds that we've accumulated above and beyond the operation of our personal assistance program.  
Our programs had a great flex in how much money we've received in each year.  As an example in 2010 we spent 91,000 and provided 17,000 rides.  In 2011 we had 219 thousand dollars with 33,000 rides.  In 2012 we dropped back 93,000 and provided 20,000 rides.  In 2013 and 2014 we averaged $175,000 with 30,000 rides.  And in 2015 we jumped up to 250,000 and provided 43,000 rides.  And this year we dropped to 50,000, and have provided so far about 10,000 rides.  
Differences are because there have been years that we had the 5316 and 17 grant dollars to use and now those dollars are rolled into 5310 and 11 grants and our state allocates them differently than they have in the past.  So you can see at least in our state the funding has not been steady.  But we continue to provide the service at some level, because as it states on the APRIL website, most people with disabilities who live in rural America continue to be isolated, frustrated and cut off from going to work or school, visiting family and friends, participating in community life, or tending to health needs because of lack of add quite transportation.  And we truly believe our program helps to alleviate some of those frustration also and provides a much‑needed service.  So that's our service in a nutshell, and I appreciate you letting me spend some time with you today.  
>> MAYOR mayor:  I think we discussed moving right into Joan and then opening it up for everybody in a conversation.  Sometimes another speaker answers a question in your mind.  But hold on to them and we will be opening up the call to everybody soon.  But let's go ahead and hear from Joan.  
>> JOAN O'KEEFE:  Thank you.  I too appreciate this opportunity to talk about transportation.  
How we got started in my shop at southeast Alaska independent living or SAIL, is that consumers came to us frustrated with no affordable accessible on‑demand transportation options.  We advocated with the taxi companies for a couple of years to buy their own ramp or lift‑equipped taxis and we didn't have any success with that.  
In 2003 we become aware of 5310 funding, and as Tim said, it's available in every state.  And I too encourage folks to talk to your state DOTs if you're not already doing so, about accessing those funds, because the states do have a lot of flexibility on how they use and disperse those funds.  
One of the requirements of 5310 is coordination and community coordinated plans.  So in 2003 we led the charge to put together a coalition, including public transit, para transit, nonprofit social service agencies and local government and we called the group the Juneau coordinated transportation and I drafted the first community plan and by doing so, Juneau and the agencies here in our teen were eligible to apply for DOT grants.  In 2004 we applied for a grant for a grant and a voucher program to make the rides more affordable.  We asked our local government if they would cover the 20% match, about $8,500 and they did.  We put out an RFP to secure a taxi vendor, and we asked folks from DOT and our local coalition to review the applications and score them.  But we only had one applicant.  So we entered into a contract with that company, which we still have today.  For the voucher program, we started with plastic poker chips with printed information on them.  Eligible users of the voucher program are people with disabilities and folks 60 years of age and older.  We compute an average cost per ride, which include all the CIL costs, any other costs as including the plastic tokens.  The 20% match from the vouchers came from a combination of a 20% donation from the taxi company, and rider contributions of $0.40 on the dollar.  
In 2007, local government realized they needed to step up as the lead agency for the coordinated coalition, and they spear headed a more complete community transit plan, which was adopted in 2008.  That same year with encouragement from our consumers, we spearheaded an effort in a community of 13,000 folks in the southern part of our region which led to the formation of the Revilla island coalition.  In 2008 we applied for a second taxi in Juneau.  Because every system needs a backup.  By then we had more than 200 nonduplicated riders.  We switched to right in the rain paper vouchers because we live in a rain forest here.  Each voucher had a distinct number that could be tracked.  We advocated with DOT at that time to let us make the vouchers available to only folks who are lower to middle income, to get the ride, the assistance where it was most needed.  That was a little bit of an advocacy battle that we got there and with DOT permission we instituted income eligibility standards of 200% poverty but made it on the honor system so that riders don't have to provide the documentation and we don't have to do that extra work.  And DOT was fine with that.  Over the years we've gotten additional vehicles, where the Juneau delegation has provided the match and in the last couple of iterations where the taxi vendor paid for the 20% vehicle match.  In 2011 our local ‑‑ our state DOT was concerned that folks who were not eligible for the program might use the vouchers.  So using 5310 money, they made available to us a technology grant, and with that funding we switched to smart cards with picture ID and started a contract with taxi software program.  Our taxi vendor continued to pay that 20% match for the technology grant.  In 2011, consumers were voicing their need for affordable, accessible on‑demand transportation so we wrote a grant for a ramp equipped vehicle using again 5310 funds and we were awarded that grant.  We put out an RFP and only one taxi company responded.  They paid the 20% match and for the vehicle.  Unfortunately the vehicle that we choice for Ketchikan was recalled.  There was a lot of problems with it and our vendor.  So after less than a year, that particular iteration of the program ended.  Then in 2013, we continued to do the voucher program, originally starting with 15,000 a year.  We were up to about $65,000 a year in federal funds.  By 2013.  
In 2015, we put out a new RFP in Juneau for a vendor.  This time we had two vendors apply.  We had a proposal evaluation committee with the coordinated transportation group, the Department of Transportation and local government.  I think wisely our agency was not even on the PEC, and if we get to lessons learned, I'll hit on why we did that.  
We put out an RFP for a taxi vendor again and we had no takers.  The cab companies complained they needed additional permits and that their drivers didn't want to provide accessible rides because those people take too long to serve.  Of course comments like that get my dander and probably everybody on the call's up.  So it was time for a new strategy.  
Where we are now, so in FY17, learning that we need to have backup, always have a backup, we have a second taxi applied for and awarded 80% of that funding.  And we're about at $70,000 of voucher funds.  But back to Ketchikan where we are now.  They have a taxi system that's a medallion system.  Where your community, local government regulates that every taxi vehicle must have a permit and permits are limited.  So each permit has a monetary value.  We advocated with the city council for our first choice and that was that they mandate that all taxi companies have ADA accessible vehicles within three years.  Unfortunately that was a nonstarter.  We couldn't get the city council to make this mandate.  The compromise just this summer we met with the city manager, the city attorney and some council members and they've agreed to draft an ordinance for new permits exclusively for accessible taxis and include incentives for companies who provide 24/7 accessible service.  Incentives will include extra permits for non‑accessible vehicles to sweeten the deal and specific prime parking locations downtown near the cruise ship docks exclusively for accessible taxies.  
Encourage accessible taxis.  And the city did adopt that we've also asked them to look into limiting airport and ferry service to taxi companies that have ADA taxis available 24/7.  We were unsuccessful in getting that adopted into the plan.  But they did make a commitment to establish a percentage of minimum accessible taxis.  
Lastly, where we are going, I must say it's my personal goal to stop writing grants for taxis.  I don't think it's sustainable.  I think that our advocacy needs to go to industry incentives so commercial vendors provide their own accessible vehicles.  In the short run that may not be the option.  Maybe it's 5310 and doing what we're doing and have been doing in purchasing vehicles and leasing them to cab companies.  But I think the real meat is going to come when we have incentives in place for taxi companies to do it on their own.  So in Ketchikan we're going to start with this ordinance.  Our goal is to get it passed this winter and improve upon it.  In Juneau our goal is to work with local government this year to draft an ordinance, that includes some of those incentives that I mentioned earlier.  
So I feel like we've come a long way, but there's a heck of a long ways left to go.  So that's my overview and thanks for listening.  
>> MARY:  Great, thank you again.  I want to remind folks again that if you have questions for our speakers, or if you would like to add to the conversation at this point, I know we've got a couple of folks specifically on the line who are going to add to the conversation.  And to do that, if you can press star 2 on your phone and that raises your hand if you have a question.  And then what will happen is I will unmute your line and the moderator will tell you when your line is unmuted.  And she will say your line has been unmuted and so you know, that's your prompt to go ahead and ask your question.  So let's go ahead and open it up to the lines.  Again, if you press star‑2, you can raise your hands or those in the CART can just type in your questions.  And while we're waiting for folks to kind of ‑‑ 
>> Mary?  
>> Maybe Joel you can share a little about ‑‑ Joel is somebody in our audience I was just going to share a little about what they're doing as well.  
>> Mary?  This is Tim.  Could I just steal a couple of minutes of Joel's time to make a shameless plug, if I might.  For those of you who are on the call who like transit, want to advocate for transit, want to know where policy stands at a national level what's happening in our states all across America, APRIL does have a transportation advocacy committee.  And it meets monthly on the fourth Monday of the month at 1:00 p.m. central time.  So if you're interested in being up to speed on what's happening and what's the dialogue in states what state DOTs, where are we at with national policy, hear great stories like we just heard from Joan and Melva, I would encourage you all to consider joining APRIL's transportation advocacy committee which is chaired by our executive director.  And you can contact the APRIL office directly and get more information and put your name in the hat to join the vibrant group of some of the most knowledgeable transit advocates in the nation.  So that's my plug. 
>> MARY:  Thank you, Tim.  I always welcome the plugs for some of the work we're doing.  Because we're lucky that our membership is so intelligent on these issues and they are willing to share it with all of us.  
And again, if you want to ask any questions to Tim about the advocacy committee or others, or for Melva or Joan, you can press star‑2 to raise your hand.  Go ahead, Joel, if you would like to start while we're waiting for hopefully some questions to queue up.  
>> JOEL:  Sure.  My name is Joel Pete and I work for the Montana independent living project based out of Helena, Montana.  On a statewide basis, one of the things that we were able to accomplish in the last legislative session was to change the funding source for our transit program statewide, our senior and people with disabilities funding.  Kind of unique what we did is we moved it from, there was a fee that was tied to every vehicle registration in the state.  And because of permanent registration established about eight years ago, that fund was dwindling down to just a couple hundred thousand dollars a year.  In the last session we were able to actually tie it to our rental car tax in the state of Montana, and so we now receive about 25% of rental car tax used for that funding and it tripled, immediately tripled what the fund was back up to around 800,000.  And hopefully it's going to remain sustainable and grow.  So that's one thing that we've done recently on a statewide basis.  
Locally within our service area, we just, as of last Thursday, were able to implement our own version of an evening and weekend voucher taxi program here in Helena.  We collaborated with the local taxi.  Didn't have a lot of luck with local government for funding, so we actually wrote a grant, received a $10,000 grant that will help offset the difference between the dollar co‑pay per ride and what the taxi company is charges.  So we just rolled that out.  To supply the van, similar sounds like other communities and other centers have found the taxi companies aren't quite ready to step up and purchase their own accessible vehicle.  About two years ago we applied for 5310 funding.  We supplied the 20% match, and after two long years of wait, about four weeks ago received a Dodge Caravan with a ramp that we are then in turn leasing to the taxi company for their use.  So we've just gone through the first weekend.  It's just starting to pick up steam.  Kind of excited about that.  At the same time, our service area also includes Bozeman, Montana.  And about six weeks ago we met with the provider along with the taxi company down there, and are in the works on getting a similar program going in Bozeman.  The nice thing is we do have a little more cooperation with the lead agency and such down there.  And that's just kind of in the works.  
The big thing we're finding obviously is funding, and how do we make that work.  Our ‑‑ we had talked with our Department of Transportation about three months ago to try to figure out how do we get them to help out and designate some of this 5310 money for the program.  And of course at this point they're not interested.  So my goal is to shame them into participation by starting to make these two programs successful.  
We're just getting going.  As a state we have one accessible taxi in the entire state and that's in Helena right now.  But it's better than the zero that we had seven days ago.  
>> MARY:  Thank you, Joel, for sharing that.  If anybody has questions, please press star‑2 to raise your hand.  And when I unmute you, she will tell you your line has been unmuted.  
I do have one question from the CART before we move to our next online speaker, or excuse me, phone speaker.  The question is, is anyone aware of AB650 in California?  Do any of other speakers have an answer for Daniel?  
>> TIM:  Mary, this is Tim.  I don't have an answer for Daniel on AB 650.  But if Daniel can shoot either myself or the APRIL office or Billy an e‑mail with the questions around that, we'll be happy to dig up some information and share it back.  
>> MARY:  Great, thank you.  I will type him our e‑mail address.  
It's lighting up with questions and comments now.  I'm excited.  Go ahead.  
>> Hello?  
>> Hi.  
>> Caller:  Hi, this is Judy I'm calling from Corpus Christi, Texas.  Mobility options program.  I've got all kinds of questions for the speakers.  But I thought what I might do, because I'm hearing a common thread about taxis in rural areas and I didn't hear anything about TMCs.  And that's kind of a leading question, because we know probably those of us who understand the Uber and the Lyft phenomena is pretty much geared to the large, urban areas, because of the high density of populations.  That's where the money is.  That's where that particular model works well.  And I want to tell you though, and I'm very excited about this, we've been doing mobility options since 2010.  And what we did was modeled a program with dark funding back then, modeled after the consumer‑directed APRIL voucher program.  And that has morphed into being an absolutely wonderful project that 5310 can support.  So it's something that provides the mobility management as one of the pieces, and the other piece is purchase of services.  We've learned ever since the get‑go you don't have to own the asset to provide the service, so we've purchased services from the existing transportation, and primarily private, some rural, but there's not a lot of participation by rural because they feel as though we are competing with them, even though we fill a gap.  But anyway.  TXDOT is a tremendous partner to us and other CILs in Texas.  Over $1 million in 5310 funding this last go‑round was approved by TXDOT and that represents ar so, disability in action, mounting horizons and pan handle independent living services.  We all had different programs.  Mobility management is in several of them.  Voucher‑type purchase of service, travel training are some of the areas that the different centers in Texas are doing with TXDOT with the 5310 funds that they're getting.  But what I'm ‑‑ to circle back to the TNC question, we are absolutely excited about a new project that was funded by TXDOT, a two‑year planning and demonstration, through the coordinated call.  The first time we applied for any of that money, and we actually were encouraged by TXDOT to do this.  A group out of Nebraska, that's obviously pretty rural, like some of the rest of you, has developed an app for real time, on‑demand transportation, specifically for rural areas.  They've gotten some federal funding to get that started up in Nebraska.  They're going to start their demonstration phase.  Well, we've had a managed care organization approach them and say we need you in Texas.  TXDOT said talk to Judy.  We did, we put together a grants application.  And we are going to plan for in one year how we're going to get this into the rural areas here in south Texas and then a full year of demonstration as to how this might work in a rural area.  So there's a lot of interest throughout the country.  Already had a lot of requests for how this was going to work.  And by the way, our partner, their service is the liberty service.  And they're a for‑profit.  And what we're finding is these partnerships, and we basically have a public‑private partnership, the partner is with liberty's product, through a Center for Independent Living and a funder TXDOT a public agency.  So I would love very much to share more detail as that occurs throughout time.  But I will tell you, if you want taxicabs to sit up and take notice, just bring in Uber or something like Uber.  And yes, you'll have a fight on your hands, but the point is, they are not the be‑all and end‑all, especially when they cannot provide accessibility.  
>> MARY:  Thank you Judy for sharing that.  I do have a couple of other folks in the queue that sparked some questions.  If you end up having more questions that you would like to add or thoughts or please let us know.  
>> Hi.  Go ahead, please. 
>> CALLER:  Teresa from everybody counties in northwest Indiana.  One of the things, I've enjoyed everyone's presentation, but one of the things that was particularly rewarding was to hear that some of the new freedom dollars were actually used for good things.  We didn't have that experience in our community because of the fact that there were a lot of stipulations.  You know, that you get input from stakeholders and priorities had to be established.  None of that happened.  In our community, in one county alone, we had had 7 different public transit providers.  Two were demand response.  Four were fixed route and paratransit and another one nobody really quite understood.  But I want to share where we went with that.  It wasn't so much a problem with funding or the availability of funding to serve people with disabilities, as it was a lack of coordination.  Because with all of those systems, they only had their own ‑‑ this one went to these three communities and didn't go outside of these communities.  We have both urban and rural parts of our counties.  And so you had a demand response service only serving this area.  The other demand ‑‑ so you couldn't get anywhere outside of a two‑town community.  So it was a lot of waste of money.  When the new freedom dollars were applied for, they were actually used to purchase nonaccessible vehicles to go to a demand response service provider that already existed so that they could contract with ARC to provide rides to their clients only and they said well, those are members of the public as well.  The program wasn't really applied well.  The upshot of all that, what we've been doing for our transit program, is not so much about needing to provide the services, but to help to find a way for these transit providers to work more effectively, and so to do that, a lot of things happened.  But the bottom line is now we have a coalition of the centers, ridership, we have a ridership council and those transit providers, and it's now moving toward having a unified system.  Our feeling was rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, it sticks to one that we have.  I'm excited about some of the things that I'm hearing you guys have been able to do.  We kind of had to go back door on it, but it's turned out to be a good thing, if that makes any sense.  
>> This is Tim.  Thanks for sharing that experience.  I think you heard from Joan and it's certainly been our experience here in Wisconsin and at my center just to the north that we collaborate with on our transportation program and that's the idea of drawing together stake holders around the conversation of coordination.  Our lesson really was that's a key feature of what we do is we sort of created as John did up in her neck of the woods.  That brings stakeholders together and you can begin to have common conversations about gaps in service and the lack of need and how that can be addressed.  The transportation that we started providing more than a decade ago now was to address those gaps, right?  Folks that otherwise would fall through the contraction.  That's who we're going to serve.  We're going to partner with all these other providers to meet the big needs.  So that's really key.  I'm glad you learned that lesson and I'm glad it's starting to bear fruit. 
>> You know, the awesome thing is it took a federal lawsuit and 20 years of work.  But the good thing is that people with disabilities in our community now, instead of being ‑‑ instead of just being the people for whom services need to be provided, they actually were instrumental in getting the transit agencies to work together.  They hadn't done that.  So the commonality turned out to be the rider subpoena so we have a pretty strong council that has formed a coalition with the transit providers and that's been effective.  But the gaps still exist.  But our problem is we've been unable to access any of the funds to fill those gaps because of the process by which the funds were given out.  In other words there was supposed to be mechanisms in place to ensure that there were processes by which the recipients were identified and all of that and it didn't happen.  So I'm really encouraged by the fact that the people were able to access the funds.  I'm listening to the concept of the vouchers and all those things, and I'll be bringing that to our coalition meeting next month.  
>> MARY:  Any other thoughts around this conversation?  We've got another question to come in.  I want to make sure that ‑‑ 
>> My name is Carol from AIM.  
>> Hi!  Your mic is live now. 
>> Okay, thank you.  
I want to introduce myself.  My name is Carol Riley from AIM in reading, Pennsylvania.  My question is usually trying to get to the doctor's and if it's a different county, usually you can't get to that county.  It's not just me, it's anybody else.  And somebody else said earlier it does get frustrating if you can't get to a family member or anything like that.  I do understand that.  So what do you do on this part, especially with the transit as well, if they can send information to us as well I'll give you the e‑mail for everybody if you guys would send information it would be greatly appreciate.  The AIM the e‑mail is aimhhac ‑‑ I'm sorry, aoc, @abilitiesmotion.org.  Do you want me to go over that one more time?  
>> I think that's all right.  You know what, Carol?  If you wouldn't mind, you can send that information to me as well, Mary Olson and I will put that on the archive page as well.  As far as your question, do any of our speakers have an answer about trying to get somebody to the doctor's office?  
>> Well, it's like for surgery or something like that from a different county.  That's what I'm saying when they have no family members or anything like that, where do you go?  
>> Mary, this is Tim.  
>> Hi, Tim.  
>> TIM:  I don't know specifically.  But if the person you're referring to, or consumers of your center, if they are on Medicaid, for example, there is an entitlement in Medicaid called non‑emergency medical transportation, often referred to as NEMT.  What that rule basically says if you're on Medicaid and you have a medical appointment regardless of the geography, and it's an authorized service, the state must figure out a way to provide you that transportation to that medical appointment and back to your home, from your home to the appointment and from the appointment to your home.  It's not an option.  It's an entitlement.  So if folks are on Medicaid and they're having that issue about doctors' appointments or medical‑related appointments, they don't even have to be a doctors appointment.  It could be a trip to the pharmacy, for example, that needs to be brought to the state Medicaid director's attention, and they have to have a process to get folks to their medical appointments.  It's a federal requirement, it's an entitlement under Medicaid.  And, yeah.  And they don't ‑‑ they can't charge you for it.  
>> Yeah, because, it is my appointment and it's in a different county.  Again, trying to get from Berks County to Lancaster, again they close at a certain time here in Berks.  I respect that, but I can't drive how do I get there if I don't have a family member that can take me there.  That's the situation.  So you're saying, Tim, to look up, what was it again?  I'm sorry. 
>> TIM:  If you or any other person is on Medicaid, it's called nonemergency medical transportation.  And states have to have a plan to get Medicaid folks to their appointments and it can't be restricted by things like county boundaries or that kind of stuff.  That should be in your state Medicaid plan, how they're going to handle nonemergency medical transportation for Medicaid‑eligible folks. 
>> Another question is, like I have Medicare.  I did have Medicaid, I don't know why they took me off it.  So I'll have to call them and find out what place there because again, that's going to put me in a pickle.  
>> Yeah, again, you can e‑mail Mary and she can forward it on to myself or to Billy.  It sounds like there's some issues there we might be able to have a conversation about offline. 
>> What is the e‑mail, Tim, please, for Mary?  
>> Mary.olson@mso.umt.edu.  
>> I just want to make sure I have it directly. 
>> Yeah, that is right.  Go ahead and send your information and we will help and do some research.  Just so you know you're not alone.  Kathy Baker in the CART says one of our problems is like Carols and we cover 15 counties in Georgia and our consumers need to get not just to local offices, but also to Atlanta which can sometimes be as much as 100 miles away.  And Pam Auer says in Pennsylvania it's called the medical assistance transportation program.  And Kathy says the nonemergency services where she is just require too long for notification.  Some will not wait for a pickup.  So it sounds like it is kind of an issue around.  So I'm glad we're going to get you connected in. 
>> I appreciate it.  Another thing, if any of you all could send information to the transit as well, that would be greatly appreciated here.  
>> Go ahead please. 
>> My name is Neil and I'm the executive director dine at LIFE in Savannah.  I really appreciate listening to this conversation.  This is a conversation that I am at the very, very beginning of.  My board is interested in purchasing a van that is handicapped accessible that has lifts, that we could use for transportation in our area.  We're not purely rural but we develop have elements, I cover 11 counties and some of our 11 counties are rural.  Basically I'm fairly new on my job and I'm trying to get my head around everything.  But when they have questions about that, I need I would really appreciate if somebody could give me the starter kit for what resources I need and what people's experience has been starting these programs up.  Because I know that we will be starting from the ground floor. 
>> Melva:  This is Melva, we have a manual that we've developed it's a little bit older but I can send it to you and you can gain from it what would help you and just disregard the rest if you would like, I can send it to you. 
>> That would be terrific, Melva.  I really appreciate that.  
>> I'm not sure if this would be appropriate or not, but we could also put it up on the website if you would like, if it's something that you think would be a useful resource. 
>> If you would like, we can.  Maybe give us a little time and we can update it and put it out there. 
>> Awesome, thank you.  I think that's great.  
>> This is Tim again, there are basic sources on the APRIL website that you can look around and see if that might be helpful to you.  The other part of it that you may want to do some research on is look at your Georgia DOT website and look at section 5310 and look at what they're doing with those dollars.  At a minimum, most states are using $5,310 to for capital purchase of vehicles.  And there will be instructions there on the timing of annual grants and who's eligible and how to apply and where to get technical assistance to apply.  So do a little research.  I would guess if you just Google Georgia DOT would get you there.  There's also a program through the community transportation association of America, which is a national organization that has a vehicle purchase program through a vendor ramp equipped vans at a discounted price.  They just announced they still have some vans available and they also have a financing package.  So depending what financial shape your center is in, that might be a way to get, to go to purchase a vehicle that wouldn't come with all this sort of government strings that go with purchasing vehicles through 5310. 
>> Okay.  
>> Mary, this is Joel in Montana.  I have a question for some of the other centers that are working with taxis.  We're running into a huge issue, liability insurance‑wise.  Like I said earlier, we purchased the van with 5310 money, we're leasing it to our local taxi company.  He went to go put insurance on it and his insurance tripled.  Just by adding the van.  He went from about $5,000 a year to $15,000 a year for liability insurance.  And you know, that extra $10,000 was strictly to put our van on his policy and offer accessible vehicle for rides.  Anybody else dealing with that same issue?  
>> JOAN. .  This is Joan our taxi company here experience something maybe not as drastic as that.  But ended up looking at a number of different options and he ended up having accessible vehicles on a separate policy than all of his other fleet.  All the nonaccessible ones are one policy and the accessible are on a different one.  After shopping around he was able to find something that yes, it was more expensive but it wasn't nearly as bad as when he had put it in a package with all his other vehicles.  
>> Anybody else on the line having a similar issue or have any thoughts for Joel?  
I want to do a quick reminder if you've got a question, go ahead and press star‑2 and then wait for the woman to prompt you.  She'll say your line is now unmuted.  At this time I'm not seeing ‑‑ oh, one more.  
>> Hello?  
>> Hi, go ahead, please. 
>> My name is Larry Roberts and I'm calling from Ithaca, New York, which is in Tompkins County, New York.  And I just wanted to encourage people.  Somebody was talking about getting involved or starting their coordinated planning process for transportation.  I think that's a very important body to be part of our center.  I'm calling from the finger lakes independent center.  Our center has been involved in that process for a number of years.  And we're sort of in a unique situation wherein the city of Ithaca is fairly urban, but we have a large rural area outside of the city.  And we've had a para transit system since 1978 and a pretty well‑functioning fixed route system.  But getting involved in whatever coordinating planning process is happening at your county level or any level is a really important place to be advocating.  And also to get to know the transportation planners or that are in your counties or cities and establishing good relationships with them is a way to go.  
I wanted to ask the presenters if they could talk a little bit about Uber and Lyft.  Because in New York the legislature decided to not allow them expand out of New York City because they have some liabilities issue.  I think the expansion of Uber into rural areas is going to have a huge impact on what taxi systems might exist.  So I'm wondering what other people are doing to advocate around Uber accessibility or have thoughts about Uber.  That's it.  
>> Joel:  This is Joel.  Uber in Montana just came on board August 1st.  So we're kind of late to the party.  And it's definitely rural.  What we're finding in Helena, for instance, started out strong with almost a dozen Uber drivers.  Our problem is because of a population in the distance that people have to travel, it's not profitable for an Uber driver.  So what's happened is as far as I know, we're down to zero Uber drivers.  I mean the app is still alive in Helena, but there are no Uber drivers because they couldn't make any money.  So I mean, from a business standpoint, if you're in a rural area it's really tough.  I just don't see from a business economic side how somebody can drive for Uber and make it sustainable in rural areas.  It's not going to surprise me to see those same results in other rural areas around the country, that there's just no way that they can stick around and stay in business and make any money driving for Uber or Lyft. 
>> Thanks, Joel.  
While others are raising their hands or not to add, I wanted to say from the CART, Kathy Baker says that in her area, in rural areas she knows that liability is huge for Uber.  She talked to one of her consumers who explored the possibility and said she couldn't afford the initial investment so it sound a lot like what you're saying, Joel.  
>> Hi, did you have something to add on Uber topic?  
>> CALLER:  Hi, this is Judy Shandley and I am one of the directors for the national center for mobility management which is funded by the federal transportation administration and I wanted to comment on what Larry had talked about.  Many communities have mobility management networks or systems which are kind of like more nation entities where they look at all the transportation resources and mobility options like volunteer driver programs, voucher programs that may be available in a community and they coordinate all that.  So along with looking into whether you can involve yourself in the coordinated planning process, check also to see whether your community has mobility management or there's a regional mobility management network.  They would be a really good resource for you.  And related to Uber and Lyft, they're called transportation network companies, we have on our website, we have started compiling examples from around the country about how transit agencies and human service organizations are partnering with Uber and Lyft and Bridge and others.  So our information is we're a national TA center so it's all for free.  And I'll share the URL where you can access that information.  We try to collect very diverse examples of how different mobility management strategies with, and one of them focuses on using Uber and Lyft.  So I'm happy to share with the conference planners.  Maybe our URL.  It's the national center for mobility management.  Thank you.  
>> MARY:  Thank you.  We will definitely add that to the archives.  That's great information.  And while we're on the subject of Uber, Kathy again from CART wanted to say she talked to Uber and they had their training program written in collaboration with the Australian Council for the Deaf.  She thought that was a good deal.  I'm not quite sure what area you're in, if you could let us know, I think it could be interesting.  It sounds like this whole topic of Uber lit up the board.  Can anybody, any of our other speakers have something to add on question we had earlier on Uber before we move forward?  
>> MELVA:  In twin falls we have not had much going on with Uber.  But in our Boise area, which is a larger metropolitan area, they have it there.  But I'm not sure how it's affecting the cab companies there.  But we don't have it here in Twin. 
>> JOAN:  And this is Joan O'Keefe and we don't have Uber anywhere in southeast Alaska at this point. 
>> MARY:  Great, thank you.  All right.  Let's go back to the phones.  
Hi, did you have a question or a comment to share?  
>> Caller:  Yes, I did.  This is Carol Riley from Reading, Pennsylvania with AIM.  How is any disability who's a veteran or is still a veteran, something happens at nighttime, how would they get to say a hospital in Lancaster and back to their home unless they have to stay overnight?  How would they get there?  Hello?  
>> MARY:  Do any of our speakers have any thoughts for Carol?  If somebody has a disability or they're a veteran or they're still an active veteran, and something happens at nighttime, how would they get to a hospital in Lancaster and back to their home unless they have to stay overnight.  Maybe looking at overnight services, is that the question?  
>> Well, no, because it happened to my friend.  He's a retired veteran.  And something happened to him overnight.  And again, he didn't have a way really to get to the hospital, so his roommate took the chance of driving him to Lebanon and he didn't want him to do that because he doesn't have him on his insurance policy.  So he wants to know exactly how can he, if something God forbid, touch wood, it happens again in the evening or even early in the morning or whatever, how would he get from Lancaster ‑‑ I'm sorry, Lebanon, excuse me, and if they do a test or whatever and what takes place, and they'll tell him if he's staying there or if he is going to go home, how would he get there and how would he get home?  
>> MARY:  Does anybody have any thoughts for her. 
>> This is Tim from Wisconsin.  Those of us who work in transportation at centers and deliver a service, these kind of issues are what vex us.  Especially around veterans.  So there are a number of questions that would have to be answered that this consumer, your friend, would need to get answers to in order to fully understand what the options might be.  Different veterans have different status with dealing with the VA system, and some of those statuses include reimbursement for travel to facilities.  But it doesn't apply to everyone.  Some regional VA systems have mobility managers and they actually operate a transit program.  I don't know if that's available in Pennsylvania, but it would be worth checking out.  
The resource to go to to begin to get these answers would be the county veterans service office or VSO.  And express those concerns about what happens if I need to get to a hospital and it's in another county, what would the veteran system, how would they respond to that.  
The final thing I'll say, if someone is experiencing a medical issue, regardless of where they need to go to, you always have the option of calling an ambulance.  Unfortunately the ambulance will take you to the hospital and drop you off and leave you in the care of physicians and nurses, but they will not come and pick you up and take you back home.  
>> Right.  That's the pickle right there.  
>> Tim:  Right.  But there are, and again, I'm not in Pennsylvania so I don't know, but there are providers that operate what are called specialized medical vehicles.  And those providers haul folks to and from medical facilities.  So that could be another option to look at as to what's available in your local area.  But issues involving veterans and medical complications can be really challenging, because those services are often not next door to where our rural folks live in Wisconsin.  
>> If he has an appointment or anything, he has to call two days to have that lined up.  Because again if he's going there, so you said, the reimbursement, yes, that's a different story, yes.  But yeah, I will look into that, Tim.  But thank you very much.  
>> You're welcome.  
>> Thanks, Tim.  
>> And Pam is in Pennsylvania and she says we have that specialized service in Pennsylvania but you need advanced approval from the MA and the VA to use it.  
>> I'm sorry, what again?  
>> MARY:  She says we have that specialized service in Pennsylvania, but you need advanced approval from MA and VA.  I'm not sure, maybe Pam, if you don't mind elaborating on what MA is and I can that to the caller. 
>> Tim:  This is Tim and my guess is that's that's probably medical assistance what their Medicaid problem is called.  And that whole process is called prior authorization and it can be a real challenge.  
>> That's good help.  I appreciate everybody.  
>> Thank you, everyone.  
This is awesome.  I love it when connections get made.  
Do we have any other thoughts or questions, comments?  Again, you can press star‑2.  We're getting close to the end of our call here, so we have time for probably about two more comments.  
>> M Mary?  It's Judy.  I thought I was on the call earlier and then Judy Shandley started talking and I want to say I'm so glad she's on the call.  Because when of the things I wanted to mention, relative to coordination at the local level, what some of us may not totally understand is this effort at coordinated access to transportation has been a federal initiative.  And that, however, is implemented at each state in a different way.  Texas process, because Texas is so large and conservative, they wanted to make sure local areas, local regions did their thing, but what has happened over the past few years is there's been sort of a waxing and waning as far as federal support for that and state support for that.  But I will tell you, I'm involved with the national center for mobility management, which Judy Shandley spoke about.  She's a co‑director.  I'm on the advisory committee.  I will tell you, this is an extremely, really well‑organized effort.  It is something that really I know helps me at my center, and with the other centers in Texas and with our funding partners.  What we learned on our call this week is that there's going to be a renewed effort on the federal government looking at coordinated access.  So with that, they're also putting together a work group with different entities representing.  I'm going to be asking, and I think this would be a great thing for APRIL to follow up with, especially with the advocacy committee, is to seek representation on that.  Because if we can have direct participation at the federal level on some of the policy decisions that are going to come up, which also mean funding decisions, I think it would be a great opportunity.  So that's something that can be ‑‑ you can access the national mobility management center, as Judy spoke about.  But that's going to be a really good opportunity, and it really does help being able to access funding.  
>> MARY:  Thanks.  And Kathy Baker in Georgia says she seconds your idea from the CART.  Thank you so much for sharing that information.  I think that's great.  And does anybody have ‑‑ anybody else have any final questions or comments for anybody who's been talking today?  You can press star‑2.  We've got time for one more.  And while you're thinking about that, I did want to say Tim Sheehan mentioned earlier that we would love to have any and all of you who are so knowledgeable join our transportation advocacy committee.  And if you are interested in that, you can e‑mail my director, who is Billy and that is bwaltom@sbcglobal.net.  You can also find us on our website as well.  We would love to have all of you guys joining our committee.  Because I'm always amazed at the amount of information and knowledge that we get on these calls.  
So again, any other final comments from folks?  Do our speakers have any final thoughts that they would like to share?  
>> This is Joan.  Thank you for the opportunity and the great conversation. 
>> Great, thanks Joan. 
>> This is Melva, I also want to thank everyone for participating.  This has been wonderful to hear everyone and what their stories are.  
>> This is Carol Riley I want to thank you for all the help.  And if I could get together with Pam with e‑mail.  
>> I will check in and see if Pam is able to get me her e‑mail.  
Great, any other thoughts?  It looks like we have one more final thought and then we'll close it out.  
You get to close the show.  
>> CALLER:  Am I on?  
>> MARY:  You are on. 
>> This is Pam Auer.  I was going to say that I'm with center for independent living in PA.  
We appreciate if any of all of you would like to join our transportation advocacy committee and this call and all of our calls are archived on our website.  At www.april‑rural.org and we will get some resources from our speakers and others that were on the line.  If you want to send me anything to share with the archives, that's mary.olson @ mso.omt.edu.  With that thanks again for calling in and you can find us in a couple of weeks to talk about SILCs and youth engagement in our final conversation of this webinar series.  Thanks, everyone.  
>> Thank you.